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 Post subject: Binder Rolls Royce
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 6:23 pm 
Master coachbuilder

Location: Bilthoven
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Rolls Royce Phantom II - all of them
Re: Chassis 89 WJ for Vicomte de Redon, France. With a huge and complicated travel trunk.
Re: binder3 Chassis 2 JS of Mrs Reginald Fellowes, France, 1931 Binder stand Paris Salon
Re: binder5 Likely to be 94 GY, for Captain Pringle, London, 1930 Binder Stand Paris Salon
Re: 187 TA 2, Chassis 187 TA for Albert Hillaert, France


Attachments:
Binder 89 WJ for Vicomte de Redon.jpg
Binder 89 WJ for Vicomte de Redon.jpg [ 50.72 KiB | Viewed 2900 times ]
Binder 3.jpg
Binder 3.jpg [ 53.31 KiB | Viewed 2907 times ]
binder 5.jpg
binder 5.jpg [ 39.14 KiB | Viewed 2907 times ]
Phantom%20II%20Binder%20Saloon%20'1930%20(3).jpg
Phantom%20II%20Binder%20Saloon%20'1930%20(3).jpg [ 94.37 KiB | Viewed 3230 times ]
binder6.jpg
binder6.jpg [ 17.75 KiB | Viewed 3379 times ]
binder1.jpg
binder1.jpg [ 24.74 KiB | Viewed 3379 times ]
187 TA 2.jpg
187 TA 2.jpg [ 302.36 KiB | Viewed 3320 times ]


Last edited by robgeelen on Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:29 am, edited 9 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Binder Rolls Royce
PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:25 am 
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Probably a 2th body, but to me the body somehow looks clumsy and sits uneasy on the chassis, so perhaps not put on the chassis by Binder? 1920 Silver Ghost


Attachments:
20 Ghost SdV Binder 3.jpg
20 Ghost SdV Binder 3.jpg [ 46.12 KiB | Viewed 3367 times ]
20 Ghost SdV Binder 2.jpg
20 Ghost SdV Binder 2.jpg [ 45.94 KiB | Viewed 3367 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Binder Rolls Royce
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:11 pm 
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1926 rolls-royce phantom I cabriolet by binder....Autoworld Brussels


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1926 rolls-royce phantom I cabriolet by binder.jpg
1926 rolls-royce phantom I cabriolet by binder.jpg [ 114.69 KiB | Viewed 3354 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Binder Rolls Royce
PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 2:44 am 
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1935 Rolls-Royce Phantom II Limousine Binder


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35rrii.jpg
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 Post subject: Re: Binder Rolls Royce
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 8:23 pm 
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15RY 1934 Phantom II Continental for Maharadjah of Jodhpur


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pI.jpg
pI.jpg [ 140.68 KiB | Viewed 3296 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Binder Rolls Royce
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 8:24 pm 
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20HP GKM30


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GKM30 20 BINDER SALOON 1928.jpg
GKM30 20 BINDER SALOON 1928.jpg [ 61.87 KiB | Viewed 3296 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Binder Rolls Royce
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:18 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2009 6:38 pm
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What is that big red car next to the Jodphur continental?


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 Post subject: Re: Binder Rolls Royce
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:07 pm 
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Perhaps Rob is the person to clear this one up:-

At the 1936 Paris Salon Binder exhibited a Phantom II drop-head with a Cord 810-inspired bonnet (hood) which eschewed the traditional Roll-Royce radiator shell. Rolls-Royce reputedly took such exception that the car was eventually withdrawn from display. After such a hostile reception it seems quite possible that Binder (or some other agency) decided to re-instate the conventional front end.

Chassis 41GX was originally fitted with a Kellner saloon and sold to J. Rubin of Geneva on 9th October 1930, and there is a photograph of it in this form The Rolls-Royce Motor Car by Bird and Hallows (p.266 in my edition). At some point however 41GX received a Binder two-seater with concealed hood that, other than the radiator shell, is more or less identical to the 1936 Salon car. The obvious possibility being that the show car was 41GX.

The reasoning is confounded somewhat by the fact that the 1973 owner of the car , Mr Sam Girdler of Oroville, Ca. stated that the body had been fitted in 1934. That is too early if it had that coffin nose, because Gordon Buehrig's Cord did not appear until late 1935, and the influence must surely have come from the Cord and not vice versa. The other odd point is why would a coachbuilder of the stature of Binder select a six-year-old second chassis for presentation at the prestigious Paris Salon. Perhaps they had already approached Rolls-Royce who had refused to supply a chassis (PIII presumably) for such a project?

There photographs of car at the Paris Salon and with the usual radiator shell in Lawrence Dalton's Coachwork on Rolls-Royce (but not one I can readily find with a quick net search!)

This is just an old conundrum that I never followed through to the end, and the chassis identity and the reasons are probably well-known to the Rolls-Royce fraternity, but can anyone enlighten me?

Clive


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 Post subject: Re: Binder Rolls Royce
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 2:39 pm 
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João Gazineu wrote:
1926 rolls-royce phantom I cabriolet by binder....Autoworld Brussels


Front picture:


Attachments:
binro.jpg
binro.jpg [ 408.62 KiB | Viewed 3268 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Binder Rolls Royce
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 5:10 pm 
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Another car : 1931 20/25 GNS66


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bi.jpg
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 Post subject: Re: Binder Rolls Royce
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 2:29 am 
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1933 Rolls-Royce 20/25 HP #GSY32 Fixed Head Coupé by Binder:

http://www.rrab.com/mar04.htm


Attachments:
gsy32_a.jpg
gsy32_a.jpg [ 21.67 KiB | Viewed 3252 times ]
gsy32_b.jpg
gsy32_b.jpg [ 21.67 KiB | Viewed 3252 times ]
gsy32_d.jpg
gsy32_d.jpg [ 19.98 KiB | Viewed 3252 times ]
gsy32_c.jpg
gsy32_c.jpg [ 29.63 KiB | Viewed 3252 times ]
gsy32_e.jpg
gsy32_e.jpg [ 30.58 KiB | Viewed 3252 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Binder Rolls Royce
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:49 am 
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Location: Bilthoven
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João Gazineu wrote:
1935 Rolls-Royce Phantom II Limousine Binder

Re: 35rrii.: Chassis 151 TA for H.H. Abbas Hilmi II, former Ruler of Egypt living in exile in France. Originally a Sedanca de Ville, but obviously had the front closed up at soem time.


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 Post subject: Re: Binder Rolls Royce
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 11:30 am 
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Location: Bilthoven
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neuilly wrote:
Perhaps Rob is the person to clear this one up:-

At the 1936 Paris Salon Binder exhibited a Phantom II drop-head with a Cord 810-inspired bonnet (hood) which eschewed the traditional Roll-Royce radiator shell. Rolls-Royce reputedly took such exception that the car was eventually withdrawn from display. After such a hostile reception it seems quite possible that Binder (or some other agency) decided to re-instate the conventional front end.

Chassis 41GX was originally fitted with a Kellner saloon and sold to J. Rubin of Geneva on 9th October 1930, and there is a photograph of it in this form The Rolls-Royce Motor Car by Bird and Hallows (p.266 in my edition). At some point however 41GX received a Binder two-seater with concealed hood that, other than the radiator shell, is more or less identical to the 1936 Salon car. The obvious possibility being that the show car was 41GX.

The reasoning is confounded somewhat by the fact that the 1973 owner of the car , Mr Sam Girdler of Oroville, Ca. stated that the body had been fitted in 1934. That is too early if it had that coffin nose, because Gordon Buehrig's Cord did not appear until late 1935, and the influence must surely have come from the Cord and not vice versa. The other odd point is why would a coachbuilder of the stature of Binder select a six-year-old second chassis for presentation at the prestigious Paris Salon. Perhaps they had already approached Rolls-Royce who had refused to supply a chassis (PIII presumably) for such a project?

There photographs of car at the Paris Salon and with the usual radiator shell in Lawrence Dalton's Coachwork on Rolls-Royce (but not one I can readily find with a quick net search!)

This is just an old conundrum that I never followed through to the end, and the chassis identity and the reasons are probably well-known to the Rolls-Royce fraternity, but can anyone enlighten me?

Clive

A few points:
a: 'sold to J. Rubin of Geneva on 9th October 1930'. In fact the car was used by Rolls Royce for trials until 1931, off test at 3 December 1930 only. J. Rubin may have been Jack Rubin, a Bentley boy, but he would more likely have chosen a Bentley. By the end of 1931 though, Bentley Motors would have been in peril, and he may have opted for a Rolls-Royce, particulary with an eye to spares and servicing.
b: 'body had been fitted in 1934. That is too early if it had that coffin nose, because Gordon Buehrig's Cord did not appear until late 1935, and the influence must surely have come from the Cord and not vice versa.' The coffin nose was already on a Renault by Grummer in 1934, so it may have been on the Binder car at the same time. All this nonsense about American designers being in the lead anywhere has only been proven in the USA. The fact is that there was a contineous spying going on between all coachbuilders and designers, and the same tendencies would appear at the same time in different places.
c: 'why would a coachbuilder of the stature of Binder select a six-year-old second chassis for presentation at the prestigious Paris Salon. Perhaps they had already approached Rolls-Royce who had refused to supply a chassis (PIII presumably) for such a project?'
41 GX was ancient by 1934. Coachbuilders however were in the business of selling bodies for cars - concepts we would now call them no doubt. However, Rolls Royce did show two Binder bodied Phantom III cars on their stand! Binder may have had more customers lined up for the new Phantom III, but could not get another chassis (there wasa waiting list) in time for the Salon or it was not finished in time, they quite naturally would have had to use a different one, preferably something to attract attention. If the body was indeed fitted in 1934 (was it?), and the car shown on the 1936 Salon (it was so says the report on the salon in Autocar), it would have required quite a bit of work to make it showable.
So, was the body fitted in 1934?. Or was the car on the show the same as 41 GX? This may have been assumed based on rumours alone. Quite a few Phantom II were fitted with second or third bodies. It may have been a 1934 or 1935 Phantom II chassis. This would account for 41 GX and the show car being quite different in many ways.


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 Post subject: Re: Binder Rolls Royce
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 11:55 am 
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Location: Bilthoven
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AYMAMI wrote:
15RY 1934 Phantom II Continental for Maharadjah of Jodhpur

This body shows so little resemblance to other Binder productions and smacks so much of a much later replica body that looks more like late twenties, that it cannot be Binder. Also, what they delivered was a three door open tourer (no door for the chauffeur).


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 Post subject: Re: Binder Rolls Royce
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 11:59 am 
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AYMAMI wrote:
20HP GKM30

Supplied to Miss R. Donelly, an American living in Apris.


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 Post subject: Re: Binder Rolls Royce
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 12:03 pm 
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João Gazineu wrote:
Another car : 1931 20/25 GNS66

Supplied to the Marquis de San Miguel in France


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 Post subject: Re: Binder Rolls Royce
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 12:06 pm 
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João Gazineu wrote:
1933 Rolls-Royce 20/25 HP #GSY32 Fixed Head Coupé by Binder:

http://www.rrab.com/mar04.htm

Originally to Comte di Vizella, Porto, Portugal. It must have looked very advanced in 1933, so the question is if it was updated somewhere in the late thirties.


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 Post subject: Re: Binder Rolls Royce
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 12:19 pm 
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robgeelen wrote:
AYMAMI wrote:
15RY 1934 Phantom II Continental for Maharadjah of Jodhpur

This body shows so little resemblance to other Binder productions and smacks so much of a much later replica body that looks more like late twenties, that it cannot be Binder. Also, what they delivered was a three door open tourer (no door for the chauffeur).

Exactly. This picture got me confused for a while. I agree it doesn't seem a Binder at all I posted it on Mystery cars before it was whiped down, nobody could answer. I kept searchin' on Team-BHP forum and I found it. Here they got the list: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/pre-1950/ ... dia-6.html
And here the quote: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/pre-1950/ ... ia-13.html.
I have to confess that I've never been conviced, Maharaha's taste were also often unusual, but in lack of a better source, I thought about you ;)


Attachments:
Jodhpur Bundi Rolls Royce PII Cont 1934 15-RYBINDER.jpg
Jodhpur Bundi Rolls Royce PII Cont 1934 15-RYBINDER.jpg [ 141.17 KiB | Viewed 3243 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Binder Rolls Royce
PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 2:21 am 
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Phantom


Last edited by robgeelen on Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Binder Rolls Royce
PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:17 am 
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Thanks to Frank Wo: Rolls Royce Twenty Drop Head Coupé by Binder chassisnr. GXL33


Attachments:
gxl33 dhc binder a.jpg
gxl33 dhc binder a.jpg [ 29.7 KiB | Viewed 3211 times ]
gxl33 dhc binder b.jpg
gxl33 dhc binder b.jpg [ 31.85 KiB | Viewed 3211 times ]
gxl33 dhc binder c.jpg
gxl33 dhc binder c.jpg [ 31.5 KiB | Viewed 3211 times ]
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