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 Post subject: U.B.C. - Unidentified Blue Coupe. Help needed.
PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2015 3:55 pm 
Master coachbuilder

Location: Oslo, Norway
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:51 am
Posts: 1900
Here is a unidentified small blue coupe, presumable from the early '60s or late '50s. I have taken the picture from another forum where no one was able to guess what it was. It looks to be well made so maybe it is a professional coachbuild? Does anyone have any idea what it is?

Image

The forum: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topi ... ystery+car

Where the image seems to orignate from (no one there was either able to guess what it was): https://www.flickr.com/photos/rw3-497alh/16588379722/


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 Post subject: Re: U.B.C. - Unidentified Blue Coupe. Help needed.
PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2015 10:18 pm 
Master coachbuilder
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Location: MAnnheim/GER-EU
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It looks for a kit-car, built-up around 1966/67, similar to the Unipower-coupes:
https://www.google.de/search?lr=lang_de ... Qd-dmZ8z8o ...,

... do You have a date for the photo?

With greetings, Frank.


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 Post subject: Re: U.B.C. - Unidentified Blue Coupe. Help needed.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 5:45 pm 
Master coachbuilder

Location: Oslo, Norway
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:51 am
Posts: 1900
Sadly no date have been provided with the picture, but I would guess it is from the early '60s based on the surroundings (which you can see clearer in the larger picture at Flickr)

ImageLondon Transport KGK538 LUC260 by Chris Stanley, on Flickr


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 Post subject: Re: U.B.C. - Unidentified Blue Coupe. Help needed.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:23 am 
Craftsman
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Location: Los Angeles
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2011 10:28 pm
Posts: 111
galrot wrote:
Sadly no date have been provided with the picture, but I would guess it is from the early '60s based on the surroundings (which you can see clearer in the larger picture at Flickr
The image was photocopied from a 1967 book titled Buses Trolleys & Trams by Chas S. Dunbar. In the book, Dunbar captions the photo as: "Oxford St. London, 1962."

Take note of what appear to be gullwing doors.

_________________
- LWA
Telaio Archive of Automotive History


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 Post subject: Re: U.B.C. - Unidentified Blue Coupe. Help needed.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 6:13 pm 
Master coachbuilder

Location: Oslo, Norway
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:51 am
Posts: 1900
Thanks. So now we have identified the location, so it is only the car that's left. :P


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 Post subject: Re: U.B.C. - Unidentified Blue Coupe. Help needed.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 4:34 pm 
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Location: MAnnheim/GER-EU
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Thank You for the additional infos (London/1962) - I have given the question to another forum with 2,6 millions of members, interested in all-over-the-earth-old-cars, - answers will follow ...,

... with greetings, Frank =) .


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 Post subject: Re: U.B.C. - Unidentified Blue Coupe. Help needed.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 8:21 am 
Master coachbuilder
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Location: MAnnheim/GER-EU
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For the hub-caps I find the way to 'Raymond Loewy Cars': https://www.google.de/search?hl=de&site ... 0X4CNSUae8

Maybe an idea for more ...,

... Frank.


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 Post subject: Re: U.B.C. - Unidentified Blue Coupe. Help needed.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2015 6:45 pm 
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Location: Oslo, Norway
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:51 am
Posts: 1900
From what I understand reading elsewhere it can seems like those hub caps were a common aftermarket accessory at the time.


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 Post subject: Re: U.B.C. - Unidentified Blue Coupe. Help needed.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2015 10:20 am 
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Location: MAnnheim/GER-EU
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Maybe, the coupe is part of the
Raymond-Loewy-cars-family:
https://www.google.de/search?hl=de&site ... LlNgDkkdiE

With greetings, Frank ;)


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 Post subject: Re: U.B.C. - Unidentified Blue Coupe. Help needed.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 10:16 am 
Apprentice

Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 8:44 am
Posts: 36
Some kind person has gone back in time and kindly asked the two ladies in front of the car if they'd mind moving.
Attachment:
image.jpg
image.jpg [ 93.52 KiB | Viewed 3860 times ]

I'm still stumped but it does reveal a few 'non-professional' touches which tends toward the one-off model conclusion.
These seem to be the hubcaps
Attachment:
image.jpeg
image.jpeg [ 299.91 KiB | Viewed 3860 times ]


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 Post subject: Re: U.B.C. - Unidentified Blue Coupe. Help needed.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 11:26 am 
Master coachbuilder

Location: Bilthoven
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 8:12 pm
Posts: 4865
Try the back issues of Motor Sport.late fifties, early sixties. There were lots of ads by producers of all sorts of small series cars, with pics, of the sort of car shown here. (Also available digitally).


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 Post subject: Re: U.B.C. - Unidentified Blue Coupe. Help needed.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 1:24 am 
Master coachbuilder

Location: Oslo, Norway
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:51 am
Posts: 1900
This car is apparently the Mystery Car Competition in Classic and Sportscar's Feb '16 according to a user on another forum. I hope someone there are able to crack it.


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 Post subject: Re: U.B.C. - Unidentified Blue Coupe. Help needed.
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 4:15 pm 
Master coachbuilder

Location: Oslo, Norway
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:51 am
Posts: 1900
Classic and Sports Car did not recieve an answer.

However based on my own "research", I've come to the conclusion that it is some way related to the 1957 Arnott-Climax GT which was built by Arnotts Garage of London in 1957 to race in Le Mans. Arnotts Garage was a small manufacturer of racing cars that is said to have constructed about 25 cars from 1951 to 1961. They withdrew from racing in 1957 after lack of success with the Climax Gt while the brand itself was retired in 1961. Little is written about what they did in the period between given up racing and going out of business. This is how the Climax GT looked like:

Image

I base my conclusion on a number of characteristics that are unique to the design of the roof and the gullwing doors on both the mystery car and the Arnott.

1: All other gullwings I've seen have had their gullwing on the flat/close to flat part of the roof so that the gullwing shutlines are not visisble unless you see it from above. However both the Arnott and the mystery car have the unusal setup where the part of gullwing panels actually starts quite low on the roof and have a rather step incline to them. I do not really know how to explain it, but in short the roof continues to rise until the red dots on both cars.
Image

This makes the gullwing shutlines very visible from the front. This seems to be a feature on both the Arnott and the mystery car, but no other cars I've found.
Image

-------------------------------------------------------
2: If we take a look at the front in vacuum then it seems like the car have a racing stripe. This stripe again appears to be centered relative to the number plate, so I'm fairly sure that this racing stripe indicate the center of the car.
Image

Now if we follow this stripe to the roof then we will see that the shutlines from the gullwing doors goes all the way to the racing stripe. This means that basically the whole roof opens up and only leaves a small midle pillar. This again a feature on both the Arnott and the mystery car.
Image


-------------------------------------------------------
3: The straight edges. Most gullwings seems to have rounded edges like this, but again this is not the case with the Arnott and the mystery car.
Image


It seems unlikely to me that two unrelated people would make so similar gullwing designs in such a unusual fashion in London in the period. I am therefore convinced that the gullwings have been designed by the same person. What I'm less sure about is who this person is. It could be a in-house design by Arnott or it could be a coachbuilder. The Climax-gt do not look similar to previous Arnott cars, but it can also seems like Arnott usually did design the cars themselves.

So I'm therefore wondering if anyone are familiar with a coachbuilder who have designed cars on Arnott chassis? Or perhaps know who did the Climax GT?


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 Post subject: Re: U.B.C. - Unidentified Blue Coupe. Help needed.
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 7:09 pm 
Master coachbuilder
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Location: Turin
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:32 pm
Posts: 2081
If the hubcaps are the original that "D" is the old Daimler logo.....


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 Post subject: Re: U.B.C. - Unidentified Blue Coupe. Help needed.
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 7:39 pm 
Master coachbuilder

Location: Oslo, Norway
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:51 am
Posts: 1900
PG1964 wrote:
If the hubcaps are the original that "D" is the old Daimler logo.....

I guess you are thinking of the ones posted by Barrie? They don't belong to the mystery car, it is just an example of similar styled hubcap. I tried to enlarge the wheel of the mystery car, and appears like it have much larger "tooths" on the "centerlock". In fact I think it could even look like a real centerlock piece.


Attachments:
bmw.jpg
bmw.jpg [ 80.63 KiB | Viewed 3791 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: U.B.C. - Unidentified Blue Coupe. Help needed.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 6:04 pm 
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Location: Turin
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I said "if", presuming already they didn't belong to....


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 Post subject: Re: U.B.C. - Unidentified Blue Coupe. Help needed.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 9:33 pm 
Master coachbuilder

Location: Oslo, Norway
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:51 am
Posts: 1900
I understand that. I just wanted to add that I don't believe they are the same as the ones fitted to the car. It was not meant disrespectful or anything. :good:


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