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 Post subject: Franay Duesenberg
PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 6:42 pm 
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1931 Duesenberg Model J Convertible Sedan by Franay #J-446 :


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1931 Duesenberg Model J Convertible Sedan Franay #J-446.jpg
1931 Duesenberg Model J Convertible Sedan Franay #J-446.jpg [ 148.44 KiB | Viewed 3170 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Franay Duesenberg
PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:28 pm 
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1933 Duesenberg Model J Berline by Franay J-365

The most rare and distinctive of all Duesenbergs are the few, exclusive examples with coachwork by the finest European, and particularly French, coachbuilders like Figoni, Hibbard & Darrin and this singular example executed by Jean-Baptiste Franay. The mighty Duesenberg J was an exotic, powerful, exclusive automobile, far different in concept and execution from even the largest and most powerful European marques. A Duesenberg J was sure to be the center of attention at any show or concours d’elegance at which it appeared and served the coachbuilders and their clients as a rolling advertisement. As such the few Duesenbergs bodied in England and Europe received the coachbuilders’ most extravagant, beautiful and eloquent designs. The air of mystery, intrigue and excitement which surrounds J-365’s first owner, the Countess Porceri, only adds to its exotic appeal and exclusivity. Shipped to France in 1930 as a chassis, J-365 was apparently first bodied by Kellner Frères of Paris as a town car. Having served its purpose in salons and shows, a year later it was rebodied by the firm of Carrosserie Franay with the extravagant sports sedan coachwork which still graces its original chassis, firewall and engine today. It was shown at the Paris Salon in 1931 in two-tone livery. A year later it was displayed again, now in monotone. In early 1934, still essentially a new car, it was sold to its first private owner, the Countess Porceri, known to the tabloid celebrity press of the day as the “Queen of Diamonds”.


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j-365.jpg
j-365.jpg [ 94.4 KiB | Viewed 3198 times ]
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1.jpg
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 Post subject: Re: Franay Duesenberg
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:09 pm 
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More pictures...


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J365 FRANAY.png
J365 FRANAY.png [ 554.59 KiB | Viewed 3162 times ]
3651.png
3651.png [ 156.23 KiB | Viewed 3162 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Franay Duesenberg
PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 5:16 pm 
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More Franay, J-396 is probably a wrong number.


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J-506-2526 Franay.jpg
J-506-2526 Franay.jpg [ 690.88 KiB | Viewed 3092 times ]
j-446-2465 franay 1931.jpg
j-446-2465 franay 1931.jpg [ 290.15 KiB | Viewed 3092 times ]
J-396-2348.tiff
J-396-2348.tiff [ 1.98 MiB | Viewed 3092 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Franay Duesenberg
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 11:11 am 
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anton wrote:
More Franay, J-396 is probably a wrong number.

Hi Anton Thank you very much for the superb picture of J 506, unknown to me Coming from Ed Lucas archive, information is true, you can bet.
J 396 has today a second body a la Weymann. The original one was a Willoughby Limousine, which is, I think, the one you've posted that makes me belive that the number is correct. The car was destroyed and on its chassis Johnnie Basset first and then Ed Lucas built the curent body.
See: viewtopic.php?f=350&t=2796.
Anyway the picture of the Willoughby Limo is thrilling too! :good:


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 Post subject: Re: Franay Duesenberg
PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 4:42 pm 
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The 1931 or 32 Paris salon, with 446 and the first body of 365.


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 Post subject: Re: Franay Duesenberg
PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 5:41 pm 
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Unfortunately another picture that I cannot get to open, but hopefully if it is on the Salon stand it will show the original long open swept wings that J-446 carried. The Hibbard & Darrin-esque lobster wings were fitted later (possibly whilst in Chopitea ownership) - does anyone know who carried out the modifications?

Clive.


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 Post subject: Re: Franay Duesenberg
PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 6:57 pm 
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neuilly wrote:
Unfortunately another picture that I cannot get to open...

Here's anton's TIFF converted to JPG.


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Franay%202010-03-29%2017-41-21.jpg
Franay%202010-03-29%2017-41-21.jpg [ 387.46 KiB | Viewed 3051 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Franay Duesenberg
PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 7:50 pm 
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Thank you Anton for the picture, and you Michiel for the conversion.

Now can anybody enlighten me about this? Years ago I looked into European-bodied Duesenbergs, and the Franay examples were especially tricky because of body changes and so on but I was fairly happy that I had worked it out.
Then this thing came along, and was apparently shown at You-Know-Where in 1997 labelled as being by Franay, and various photographs have appeared all over the web ever since bearing the Franay name. I don't know the origin of the one I attach, but it turns up a lot.

More recently I have seen this described as a Duesenberg "Hot-Rod" built up in the 1950s with a body designed by a "Mr Northport", a "designer for Duesenberg"(sic). Is this some distorted reference to J. Herbert Newport?

I have never believed Franay to have had any hand in this, and find it hard to believe that such a distinctive and short-chassis car could have been unknown for so long had it started out anything like this. Is it even a Duesenberg?

I am sure the true story must be known to someone who can put me straight.

Thanks,

Clive.


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woodduesy.jpg
woodduesy.jpg [ 190.63 KiB | Viewed 3049 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Franay Duesenberg
PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 10:45 pm 
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neuilly wrote:
Thank you Anton for the picture, and you Michiel for the conversion.

Now can anybody enlighten me about this? Years ago I looked into European-bodied Duesenbergs, and the Franay examples were especially tricky because of body changes and so on but I was fairly happy that I had worked it out.
Then this thing came along, and was apparently shown at You-Know-Where in 1997 labelled as being by Franay, and various photographs have appeared all over the web ever since bearing the Franay name. I don't know the origin of the one I attach, but it turns up a lot.

More recently I have seen this described as a Duesenberg "Hot-Rod" built up in the 1950s with a body designed by a "Mr Northport", a "designer for Duesenberg"(sic). Is this some distorted reference to J. Herbert Newport?

I have never believed Franay to have had any hand in this, and find it hard to believe that such a distinctive and short-chassis car could have been unknown for so long had it started out anything like this. Is it even a Duesenberg?

I am sure the true story must be known to someone who can put me straight.




Thanks,

Clive.



Hi Clive. Yes it's a Duesenberg, J113-2135. Originally a Town Car by Holbrook. The wood body would be designed by Herb Newport, who made also the Mormon Meteor, for John North III (hence Northport name) with similar shape to the Clark Gable and Gary Cooper SSJs but with Honduras Mahagony. Fitted with a supercharger , the chassis may have been shortened . Built by John Todd a talented boat and coachbuilder.
As you well thought, never ever a Franay. Neither a hot rod.
I can't think why in you-know-where had that Franay label. Marketing instead of truth again?

Pipo


Last edited by Aymami on Mon Mar 29, 2010 11:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Franay Duesenberg
PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 11:06 pm 
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neuilly wrote:
Unfortunately another picture that I cannot get to open, but hopefully if it is on the Salon stand it will show the original long open swept wings that J-446 carried. The Hibbard & Darrin-esque lobster wings were fitted later (possibly whilst in Chopitea ownership) - does anyone know who carried out the modifications?

Clive.


Right. Chopiteas added them in the 40's. Sorry, don´t know who did it.

Pipo.


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 Post subject: Re: Franay Duesenberg
PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 11:49 pm 
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Thanks so much Pipo, I've wondered about that Duesenberg for such a long time. It's good to have such a complete reply. John North III I think may be the same as John D. North who owned all manner of delectable cars over time.

The body on that Duesie is a fine piece of work (although I personally think the windscreen is too high) - but in Mahogany! Hardly a lightweight sporting body...

Clive.


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 Post subject: Re: Franay Duesenberg
PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 11:58 pm 
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Let's watch it a little more, though I know it isn't on the right topic.


Attachments:
29-Duesenberg_Mdl_J_DV-#CEA.jpg
29-Duesenberg_Mdl_J_DV-#CEA.jpg [ 330.72 KiB | Viewed 3039 times ]
29-Duesenberg_Mdl_J_DV-#7C9.jpg
29-Duesenberg_Mdl_J_DV-#7C9.jpg [ 305.38 KiB | Viewed 3039 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Franay Duesenberg
PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:41 pm 
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This one started life as a 9(!) seater limousine by Franay which was later converted to this shape.
Apparently belonging to Greta Garbo who later sold it to a Mr. M. Favier.
Which one is it?


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DuesenbergJ-Franay-1.jpg
DuesenbergJ-Franay-1.jpg [ 156.93 KiB | Viewed 3019 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Franay Duesenberg
PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 10:21 am 
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I don't know if it's worth posting but i found a classified ad of a Duesenberg by Franay in an old french newspaper from december 1939. It was a seven-seater for sale in Paris. Does anyone know which car it was according to cars' history?
Anyway, nice selection of cars offered by this retailer!
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Sans titre.JPG
Sans titre.JPG [ 85.75 KiB | Viewed 2991 times ]


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 Post subject: Re: Franay Duesenberg
PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 4:36 pm 
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My sources say this car was labeled by Franay, but built by Hibbard & Darrin...


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Hibbard&Darrin Duesenberg J 1931-.jpg
Hibbard&Darrin Duesenberg J 1931-.jpg [ 30.94 KiB | Viewed 2944 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Franay Duesenberg
PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 7:11 pm 
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As far as i know, that's J-446, before the fenders where changed.
Perhaps that was done by H&D?


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 Post subject: Re: Franay Duesenberg
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 3:06 pm 
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Two pics of the Saloon in two different colours, obviously, but both period pics. Dark is first, the lighter colour second?


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Franay 2385_J-365_2.jpg
Franay 2385_J-365_2.jpg [ 36.21 KiB | Viewed 2921 times ]
franay due.jpg
franay due.jpg [ 99.86 KiB | Viewed 2921 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Franay Duesenberg
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:22 pm 
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This picture of what seems to be a french concours 'd'antan' makes Franay a bit more possible, doesn't it?


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0dus.jpg
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 Post subject: Re: Franay Duesenberg
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:43 pm 
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J-365 will be sold next month: http://www.kruseclassics.com/index.cfm? ... O12&lot=83


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